March 18, 2009

An excerpt form a conversation that was never finished


This conversation took place between two real people, I could only share that much after removing some of its content to maintain anonymity. Nonetheless, it remains intriguing not because it's between a man and a woman, but rather because it's about what's they think is right and whether it's the only way!


Disclaimer: Like I said, the conversation was taken out of context; hence, it does not really reflect the characters or beliefs of those having it with regard to their gender roles. So I would really appreciate it if the comments did not attack either of the characters; otherwise, you're most welcomed to share your opinion.



X: anyways, women have it in them to endure khan2et their husbands, but it's not always happening the other way around… momken 3ashan men can have affairs while women's only outlet is complaining to their girlfriends, generally speaking… we eyak te2ool en you guys are the miserable ones having to resort to affairs since communication and whining are not your forte

Y: maho i think affairs are a sign of desperation that we are the victims :)… ya3ni wa7ed masalan fi balad kolaha masane3 naseegg… wi howa ma3andoosh elskills bta3et elnaseeg, fa byetarr yesra2 3ashan ye3raf ye3eesh… it’s an act of desperation, not of evil intent(not defending all men that do it, akeed some are evil)

X: so you were fe balad feeha naseeg bas, i say you either learn how to teshtaghal fel naseeg or leave to a country where you can make another living… mesh tesra2, because you as a person, deserve better than to sell yourself short for the easier solution… how would people evolve if they're not challenged?

Y: ana m3aki, thats why i say it’s a sign of desperation… just like turning to alcohol is a sign of desperation… mesh b2ool alcoholics are correct in their decision; i'm saying ppl who do that are desperate

X: el moshkela with your theory is… wait, heya mesh moshkela, i am basically confirming what ur saying… some people go through the same circumstances and don't let despair get a hold of them; desperation denies people better things they deserve… i know it's extremely hard to control if it finds its way to a person, close to impossible… but saying that whatever acts of desperation are ok madam one is desperate is like having a backdoor that's easier to open, and people would end up using that door instead of using the main door; and then the norms, what's right and wrong will be twisted as per the notion of "everybody’s doing it, so why can't we?"… which would take us back to “who will do the right thing ba2a”… we make the right thing harder to do when we say it's ok to do stupid things just because you’re desperate

Y: enti your situation, the "right thing" is simple; other situations it's much more complicated

X: fair enough… but i still insist en just because it's harder, it doesn't mean we should choose the easy way out; people don't grow doing the easy thing, there are lots of famous quotes saying it better bas what they never really emphasize on is that there’s a great sense of achievement one gets when they manage to do the hard thing and survives it… and because people do not hear about that part, they don’t find the right thing to be that rewarding, they just thing of it as part of the burden of “being good”… of course there will always be doubts, but we always doubt, don't we?

Y: bardo i agree, but that sense of acheivement comes afterwards, after it ends. When you're in the situation, to use another anology, when you're in the middle of the sea and you feel as if you're drowning, and your boat isn't keeping you afloat, then you see another boat that will help you, but it's not yours, you can't say "i won't steal that boat because it's wrong", you act out of desperation. I agree, it's illogical, irrational, etc., but all this is when we look back on it. Sa3etha it's a desperate move.


Update: If you have time, please go check Slop's post; I find it to say a lot of what I had in mind as I posted this! Thanks man.

15 comments:

Ice Queer said...

How alcohol and affair r desperation product?! Especially alcohol!

insomniac said...

i am not sure, but i think Y meant being an alcoholic, not just drinking... since even by non-religious standards, some might view alcoholics as abusive weaklings...

as for the affair, the original context of the conversation had to do with marital problems and how usually the married couple can feel trapped and suffocated by their responsibilities and obligations towards one another once the passion cools down...

that was when X suggested that women in this society have more tendency to endure how suffocating their husbands can be, while men tend to look for outlets that might include an affair, as in my case...

did that clear the line of thought??

whew! that was hard to write without showing what i really think!!!

Knowledge Seeker said...

It is fine to look for explanations for mistakes but what is not fine is to find excuses as if there was no other way than doing these mistakes…
ppl tend to use logic in manipulative way to prove that they have no other choices than being & doing whatever they do, they are just victims of how they were created or raised so we can’t blame them… all of this is just BLA BLA BLA & nonsense
We do have the choice & if we are convinced other way then we are cheating ourselves, & using the same logic we will have to stop judging any criminal coz his genes are responsible for is criminal behavior, or coz his parent were harsh on him or maybe he didn’t enjoy a decent bar of chocolate when he was little or whatever excuse that we can come out with…..

insomniac said...

and this is how i feel! that it's not just about the circumstances that cause us to act in certain ways, there is choice, always!

they say most child molesters have been molested as children... does that make their action any less horrible?! does that mean that they sympathize with their own molesters?? i think that the moment one inflicts harm on others, especially on purpose, they lose whatever sympathy they might have deserved at some point! i understand however, that some might lash out and inflict harm just to get away from being labeled as a victim...

could have to do with pride, the not wanting to be a victim part... i recommend that you read what my friend shared on his blog, it's very thought provoking; i can't seem to get it off my mind!!

http://umslopagas.blogspot.com/2009/03/choices-tests-predicaments-whatever-you.html

Sherif said...

يشرفنى ان ادعوك لحضور حفل توقيع أول كتاب لى فى عالم الادب " لست الا بعض الاوراق" والذى يقام باذن الله يوم الاحد 5 ابريل 2009

المكان : مكتبة ديوان بمصر الجديدة
العنوان : 105 شارع ابو بكر الصديق مصر الجديدة – مقابل نادى ضباط الجلاء بمصر الجديدة
التاريخ : الاحد 5 ابريل 2009
الميعاد : 7 مساءا

فى انتظار تشريفك

enadaha said...

Inso,ana fay2a today and can comment ba2a ;)
about the desperation:
I believe the word "desperation" is not suitable here. it's a building desire to be satisfied after putting up with dissatisfaction...applies on anything. and the need is varied from one to another depending on what is a nagging need to THEM.
desperation is in cases like stealing to feed babies and all... and btw, i'm sorry, but saying that it's better to learn a trade than to steal to feed starving babies is ...i don't know...too much luxurious standards...3ashan 3o2bal ma y learn a trade tkoon elwelad matoo men elgoo3.
btw, Islam doesn't punish stealing in that case...proof...thefts of things worth a loaf of bread is not punished physically when caught...
Anyway, desperation would never be applicable here.
Tayeb, what's wrong with wanting fulfillment: the way we practice that desire.
I think enno if i married someone and tried my best to share a good life with him and he failed me to the extent that I'm jeopardized to think, only think of another...i should leave. live and let live.
some men, on the other hand, don't have the guts to do so...or even take a second wife (i think it's okin somecase) they choose to hide and have affairs...get satisfied yet not face the main problem...on their way they humiliate: 1st themselves, 2nd their wives, 3rd the third party specially if she's habla and fell for him.
being right is a very personal thing...i know...yet facing choices when making them is right. period.
and, one thing that in our culture women aren't known to complain about satisfaction - any type- because they were raised in a society that inhibits their standards!!!, and another that we assume they have non.
We all have the right to live respectfully yet delightfully if we can.
We imprison ourselves in narrow perspectives and selfcenterd delusions.
Man was created with a whole universe inside his spirit...things aren't that obvious nor an eaquation.
we just need to...i don't know...maybe...LIVE!

The Caller said...

Inso, Have i ever told u the story behind that dreadful name??
E nadaha??
:D
Alzheimer :D

Shimaa Gamal said...

I don't know why this conversation reminded me of the silly sar7an & nefeesa.
He keeps trying to kill her in the time he could divorce her easier!

insomniac said...

Sherif,

I would be honored to come, i hope i will :))


my nadaha,

a long comment, yaaaay :)

just to get this off the table... yes, in the particular case you mentioned, stealing is not a crime, it could be a right when lives are compromised because they can't earn a living... any life threatening position entitles a person to violate some ethics... bas don't you think that at some point the man responsible for the family will have to learn to earn a living in a better way... there is always a point where one must fix the mistakes he/she has done in his/her state of "desperation"...

as for the whole marriage and affairs (not that i believe they're the same)... yes, your description seems fitting... a desire to fulfill a dissatisfaction... all i am asking is to do right by the wife... i think people deserve honesty, at least if it's all they want... i know i am talking out of my own perspective, being a person who would prefer the truth any time of the day no matter how painful or disappointing... and i am aware my righteousness has only been tested as the wife, not as the other woman, and i hope i can live up to my standards if the tables were ever turned!

as for women and how they're perceived in this society, khaleeny sakta a7san la2en ennaharda bezzat i can't afford to show my hate and resentment about it!

yep, i know the story, i think... lana neqash fe zalek al mawdooo3 ;)


Shimz,

ya shimaa, el tala2 abghad el 7alal... wel nas dayman betfakar fe reda rabena zay manty 3arfa... olna khaleeny sakta a7san :)))

insomniac said...

seriously though ya shimaa, i understand how divorce can be a real complicated decision, and that's what makes doing the right thing (as per my own opinion) hard...

Shimaa Gamal said...

I understand that divorce is a tough decision. It isn't easy to give anything that you invested in. But, when people get to the point of affairs and thinking of poisoning food beykamelo lieh?
eh yegber ay 7ad fi el donia to sleep with the enemy.
U know affairs don't just happen. ya3ny el wa7ed mesh beys7a el sob7 yela2y nafsoh metwarat fi 3elka 3'alat. It takes time, he plans it. He likes someone, then he finds time to meet them, then he gets involved past the red line. Then he does his best to keep it hidden. This is not an act of desperation. This is a crime ma3 sabk el esrar wal tarasod. It is like a woman bet7ot a little amount of poison to her husband for years. 3ashan lama yemoot ma7desh ye3raf enaha she was the one who killed him.
heya heya, that woman isn't killing him out of desperation, laken el set elly betetkhane2 ma3 gozha we tekhbatoh bel vase elly kanet omoh gaybaha we yemoot this is out of desperation.
What I mean is, acts out of desperation mesh betkoon planned, and it is a one time thing, and usually ba3d ma bet7sal people regret it.
That's why affairs and what Sarahan is trying to do are both crimes and not funny and illogical. Divorce is the only reasonable decision, ab3'ad el 7alal laken 7alal :) in the time el 7alien el tanyeen 7aram :)

bas ne2ool eh, layssa 3ala el 3'aby 7arag :))

الشنكوتي الكبير said...
This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.
insomniac said...

Shimaa,

i completely agree


Ehab,

men gheer ma ne3ok fel nas elly fel convo ya Ehab... we can disagree but we can't ridicule other people... sorry for deleting the comment but this is exactly why i left a disclaimer...

The.I.inside said...

God I can't believe I missed that, damn you work!.
I agree with both points, an affair is sometimes a sign of desperation, but there are other times when it's act of revenge.
but there is a huge difference between excuses and explanations like knowledge seeker said, people are responsible for their actions.
Human's are created to be challenged.

insomniac said...

I,

you've said it better than me :) and i think Y would agree on the affair being desperation vs. revenge :)

and as for work, don't worry, the blog is always here and i will always read your comments :)))