June 24, 2008

I can’t think of a title!


Earlier this month, when A my colleague found out it was my birthday, he told me how his wife has a multi-personality disorder due to being a Gemini . He kept saying how she has two names; one her dad chose for her that she did not like; hence, every one calls her by her name of choice. He also elaborated that she was born on the 17th, but registered on the 18th; therefore she celebrated on the 17th, which caused him a lot of confusion so he ended up wishing her a happy birthday on both days to avoid any of her “Gemini madness”.

That was irrelevant, but it had to be said because on that very same day we received our medical insurance IDs and I rushed into his office asking him to confirm if her registered name was the one of the ID, since I know he always referred to her with her favorite name and when he made me fill the applications months ago he never mentioned she had a different name. my doubts were in place and the ID was issued with the wrong name which had me do more paper work to have it amended and have a new card issued and sent.

This was what led to this conversation that I still find hard to describe with any proper word!!


Moi *walking into M’s Office since A was there*: hey, here is R’s new medical ID, and here is the old one, my gift to her; now she also has two IDs with both names, as a Gemini, I know for a fact she will appreciate it :)
A *smiling*: shokran ya pasha, she will! Fe3lan el maganeen a7san nas yefhamo ba3d
Moi: merci ya 3a2el
A *looking at both cards*: OR I can marry another one bel esm el tany, now I have both covered medically
Moi: la ya sheikh!
Him: aiwa, mesh enty dayman bet2oleely etgawez tany (never happened of course)
Moi: no, not me, my crazy twin, or in your case, el twin el 3a2la ;)
Him *noticing my sarcasm*: feeha eh ya3ne lama atgawez tany, maho M ahoh 3ayez yetgawez tany
Moi *looking at M in disbelief*: ENTA YA M??!! dana ba2ool 3aleek tayeb we decent, mesh zay A!!
M *with his copyrighted dumb look*: ya3ne eh mesh fahem, howa 3ashan tayeb matgawezsh?
Moi: ba2oloko eh ana maleesh da3wa, ana rag3a maktaby
M: la la beggad… feeha eh lama atgawez, I wanna know your take
Moi: why would you want to remarry, I never met your wife, but you speak highly of her, and judging by the things you say enta meddala3 aslan, she’s a house wife and she’s taking care of your two sons and you strike me as a religious guy who wouldn’t like to inflict injustice to his good wife!
M *in a serious tone*: heya L fe3lan hayla and a perfect wife on so many level, bas ana fe3lan 3ayez atgawez tany
Moi *starting to have an aggressive tone*: leeh ba2a
A: tafasa!
Moi *laughing*: eh da 7atta A ra2yo men ra2yy!!
*A had a phone call so he had to leave the room*
M: L begad zooga kowayesa, bas feeha eh lama atgawez
Moi: eh elly mekhaleek 3ayez tetgawez… eh? Enta mel nas elly bey2olo sonna we keda?
M: no, ana mesh batgawez 3ashan fakerha sonna, howa feh nas bet2ol keda?
Moi: seme3t!
M: howa lazem yekoon feh sabab?
Moi: 3ala 7ad 3elmy la2 it’s a decision you make bas leeh shoroot shar3eya, lazem meratak teb2a 3arfa we mewaf2a….
M *interrupting*: we law mawaf2etsh?
Moi: mahy law mawaf2etsh men 7a2aha tetlob ettala2 we men 7a2ak 3aleeha ennak tettala2ha law enta mossamem tetgawez… enta ba2a shayef en mawdoo3 gawazak dab el ahameya el kafya ennak tehed beet we tegra7 meratak ell yenta nafsak betshkor feeha??
M: ya3ne howa da 3a2l, mesh men 7a2aha tetlob tettala2 law ana etgawezt!
Moi: la2 men 7a2aha, and you can double check!
M: fe wa7da tekhreb betha bardu
Moi *wishing looks could kill as I looked at him*: heya el set talabet tetala2 men nafsaha wala enta elly 3ayez tetgawez!!!!!!!!! We Kaman ana makhalastesh kalamy… shar3an, mesh rabena 2al en kheftom alla ta3delo fa wa7eda, ya3ne el 3adl da shart shar3y… we fe ra2y el motawade3, you won’t…
M: la fe3lan mesh ha3del… asl ana nefsy fe wa7da… ya3ne L hayla we motadayena we kol 7aga we ro7ha tayeba we nedeefa, bas ana 3ayez wa7da motadayena aktar
Moi *thinking to myself NA3AM*: ya3ne eh!!! Elly a3rafo en whatever your religious practices are, the only way you can impose them is by dedicated practice from your end… el deen qudwa just like any kind of behavior, I could be wrong bas da ra2y el khas!
M: te2sody eh?
Moi: ya3ne law wa7da mesh betsally, I think gozha mayenfa3sh ye2olaha tessaly gheer law howa aslant beyssally, we Kaman rabena elly bey7aseb mesh enta, enta leek el 7agat elly hatos2al 3anha feeha bas, we da bardo ra2y el motwade3 we momken awy atla3 mesh bafham!!
M: ana 3ayez wa7da motadayena zayy waktar, ya3ne lel 7a2 ana ah basaly el fard be fardo bas ana batfarag 3al tv we baroo7 cinema we basayef fe 7etat feeha women be mayohat…
Moi: mesh fahmak… *my phone rings* ba2olak I have to go answer the phone (phew, saved by the bell)

Now my own comment, with all respect, el ragel da ahbal wala beyestahbel!!! SERIOUSLY??? Tab ana mesh fahma we 3ayza afham we mesh 3ayza aghlat feeh la2en I used to respect him!! SERIOUSLY!!!!! I can’t find words!! SERIOUSLY!!! I wanna say “ye7ra2 el gawaz 3aly 3ayzeen yetgawezo” bas ba7awel ab2a mo2adaba!! SERIOUSLY!!!

41 comments:

Ma 3lina said...

Na3m !!!!!!!!!!

Y3ni 3awez ytgwez wa7da motdina akter mmm tyb ma yte2i rabna howa we y7wel howa we merato yb2a motdyneen akter

we b3den 3la asas en el motdina aktr hia el hats3edo wala ih !!!

Asln law etgwez wa7da more religious than him mmkn ytkhne2 la2n they will huv diff concepts and thoughts

Men r unbelievable mafesh ay tafkeer khales !!!!!!!!!

insomniac said...

ana mesh 3arfa a3ala2 walahy, ana begad masdooma fe taree2et el tafkeer!

Eventuality said...

I think howwa beyhayyess...walla eih?:) Seems ya3ni he's just making a discussion out of nothing, ay kalam we 7'alas...we ba3dein 3ady ah fee nas betfakkar keda, we anyal men keda kaman :)

insomniac said...

everytime i think i finally figured people out i find out en feeh 7agat that simply cannot be figured out!! wade7 enny hafdal atte7ef le7ad matshall... lowa7dy!!

Xero said...

don't argue with this kind of ppl .
you have to accept that some ppl don't have any sense of logic at all .
and if you try to figure out what they are arguing about m you'll end up either by beating the hell of out of them or going nuts .

insomniac said...

but.. but... but...

i thought he was bany 2adam 3a2el!!! he;s in his mid 40s... he usually walks in my office saying nice things decently and asking for advice regarding his kids' schools since i am closer to their age! when he sees me smiling or hears me talking about my dad he says phrases like "i like how ur always smiling, reminds me of L's smile... and your dad sound like my late father in-law, ragel tayeb Allah yer7amo we 3eref yerraby"... MESH FAHMA!!!!

i wanna say MEN, but i am still trying to refrain from being prejudiced!! bas lama da kaman mokho bayez, meen mokho saleem!!!

Adam said...

men get tired of whats old and what they possess.

insomniac said...

correction!! humans get tired of what's old and what they possess...

but women do not have the luxury to do anything about it!! woemn adapt... and i think men can as well, only they prefer not to...

Adam said...

right. you are right.

they prefer to be happy.

Anonymous said...

:D
3ady ya inso ..take it easy , as long as he's that....(can't find a proper word , so i'll leave it blank) don't argue with him , he'll do what he wants anyway we kaman i think he's totally convinced of his logic.

I think it's like A said "tafasa" , and moreover the society won't have a single blame to him , that's why he feels he's not doing anything wrong , simply selfish!!

R

Jade said...

ham yeda7ak w ham yabaky...

insomniac said...

adam,

isn't happiness people's optimum goal... u think women prefer being miserable?!

ok! i think our society prefers that women suck it up and remain miserable and they make it sound some kind of heroic sacrifice and all that crap...

oh well!


R,

hehe, bayen eny et7ama2t hah? i AM taking it easy tho, ya3ne howa kan showayet disbelief 3ala disgust, bas fel akher ya3ne, yewla3!! mana 3andy elly azfta menno!!

it still remains shocking to me, no matter how common and often it might happen!! i think i should worry the day it stops shocking me because that way i'd be acknowledging it just like everybody else!


joujou,

exactly!

rasha said...

Ma3lesh esta7meleeni...please!

He is just mo7rag ye2ool fa bey2alef ay 7aga habla oo khalas.

Men NEVER think of re marrying except for SEX!!! BAS!!! faqat la gheer.

Problem is...and i'm just being realistic here so no darb...men see HOT women in movies and on the beach ba2a oo keda so they fantasize having such steamy relationships...elmo7tarameen beyfakaro enohom 3ayzeen da bel7alal...mo3zam elregala elly mesh mo7tarameen have picture perfect homes bas beyhayesso bara bera7ethom oo ma7adesh daryan.
Another problem en in our society very few women know how to be hot oo da asasan l2an mo3zam elsetat emma beytkesfo yeb2o hot ma3a azwaghom aw mesh tay2een abo azwaghom fa mesh bey7awlo aslan!

Now that i've said that....elkholasa kol elmawdoo3 zeft fe zeft bas heya eldonia keda oo homa elbani admeen keda...waqe3!!

The sooner we realize reality as NUDE as it is the sooner we have clear vision 7ata law benbos 3ala shit!


hugs*

insomniac said...

leh ya rasha keda!! leeh bes tekharbeshy bara2ty, LOL

walahy ana el assembly beta3y kan feh 7aga ghalat, because no matter how aware i am of the facts you stated, lessa bedoon wa3y bafakar be mokh wa7da 3andaha 4 seneen.... for some idiotic reason i believe what people tell me because the naive in me does not get why some people would bother say something over and over while they mean another!! ana aslan ta3bana men ghabawty de keteer...

anyways, i knew there was something he wouldn't say to me, la2en aslan we're not friends... basana bardo mesh fahma leeh men expect to practice the space religion and society have given them to the max without stopping to think about other duties and obligations they should fulfill abl mayshoofo nafsohom... eshme3na el sett heya elly tetnayel teda7y aslan...

seebek, again, yewla3 :))

Shimaa Gamal said...

Ok ya Inso, wana elly kont gaya me3ashema nafsy 7aga tekhargny mn el mood :(

Interestingly, last night my ex HH called saying that he finally decided to remarry badal el 3at. And this decision is a result of a thorough talk with one of his friends. bas the one he shall marry should be young, around the beautiful agae of 16-18, malhash ahl or leeha ahl yeskoto bel feloos. le2noh he can't afford en his wife te3raf. so, lazem yetgawez wa7da 3orfy or fi el ser.
tab3an ma3 enoh kal 3ada ye7ra2 el dam, bas at least howa 3andoh el shaga3a enoh ya3teref enoh he is marrying for sex and for a good cause enoh yebtal 3at.
El akh M dah is a CC of HH. bas dah like what Rasha said mo7rag ye2ool enoh loh nazawat, and probably maloosh fi el 3at le asbab keteera fa 3ayez ye3ot shar3y bemwaf2et meratoh.
el ragel fi sen khatar. me7tag ye7es enoh lessa mar3'oob.

As for Mr. Adam's comment. Women too decide not to be happy when they accept the life sentence of marriage. Nothing is granted and shit happens, re-marrying isn't the way to make things better, divorce is your answer. But most men doesn't have the balls to decide to leave what they know to try what they don't know the same way that very guy didn't have the balls to say the real reason he is thinking of having another wife.

Inso, you can call it The Egyptian Men in the 21st century.

btw rasha, it is not because women don't know how to be hot. It is because most men has dual characters. Some of like to keep a certain image with the wife. For many reasons. That needs a seperate post. fa mesh dayman 3'altet el set en el ragel beydawar 3ala sex bara, 3'ier tab3an enohom gens tefes. and btw, tashree3 el ta3dod makansh 3ashan el sex khales. ya3ny mesh zay ma el regala te7eb te2ool en el ragel beyfakar fi el sex aktar, le2n nafs el regala dool bey2oolo kalam keteer 3an ezzay el setat masroo3a.

7aga te7ra2 el dam

insomniac said...

la ya gameela, walahy mesh kan asdy yet7ere2 dammek, sowwy :)

ya gama3an i feel that we keep going round in circles!

ya3ne masalan, HH da, enty olteeha, 3orfy we wa7da malhash ahl aw yoskoto bel feloos we kaman 16-18 years old... ya3ne bezemetek we deenek, da 7alal?!!!!!!! lama howa 3ayez wa7da 3ashan yezlemha, 7ata law bemowaf2etha, we e7temal tegeeb baby we yetzelem howa kaman, we merato bardo konha mesh 3arfa da zolm... keda el mafrood nedeelo star 3ala orto 3ashan he preferred el shar3 3an el 3att... la2, 7esso el deeny fe3lan 3aly!! wel moshkela en howa keda moqtane3 enno msA 3amel elly 3aleeh wezyada, da kaman aqar bel sabab he's considering remarrying, ya benty nebneelo temsal gamb my x 3ashan howa kaman kan shater we geh e3taraf!!! walahy 3eeb, benezlem el deen we mesh bas keda, we give religion a bad name...

3agabetny ragel fe senn khatar de, lol

one of things i resent the most about men in our society is the way they take forever to weigh divorce; not out of the consequences and their obligations and responsibilities towards their spouse and children -if any-, but out of throwing away something they have, especially when they have good things going on!! tab maho if you have a keeper wife and adorable kids ma tetlam ba2a... we lama enta makhnoo2, khalas, let go we matezlemhomsh, be a good x husband and a good father AND pursue your happiness... laken leeh tet3es nafsak welly 7awaleek... heya de el regoola... regoola is a very distorted term nowadays!!

Shimaa Gamal said...

walahy ya inso fekret el temsal di kanet fi dema3'y mn fatra. aho ne7ot el tamaseel di fi makan we yeb2a tekoos el zeyara sorry ya3ny netef 3ala el temsal. or ne7defoh bel shabasheb.

ya benty HH is a case, ana shayfa enoh mareed. we 3ala fekra his need to re-marry mesh 3ashan el deen zay ma bey2ool :) his need to re-marry enoh 3aref enoh beykbar, and his chances enoh ye3raf yestad elly bey3ot ma3ahom are decreasing, fa 3ashan keda 3ayez yedmanel 3at. and sada2eny del el kalab mesh beyt3del and there are proofs enoh beyfdal ma3woog 7ata ba3d ma yet2te3. lel asaf ma3 eny I believe en HH is a case, bas howa represents all men. he is a case 3ashan howa fih kol 7aga betaree2a wad7a awyy. the rest 3andhom elly 3andoh bas bensab motawfawta.

el mawdoo3 be3eed 3an el deen kol le bo3d, bas as everything in the Egyptian's life lama el wa7ed yetzene2 lazem yedakhal rabena fi gomla mofeeda 3ashan ma7desh ye2dar ye2ool telt el talata kam, badal maykoon my opinion against yours bey7awel el nekash to you against God.

Don't make me start on el rogoola we mafhoom el rogoola 3and ashabh el regal elly ba2o malyeen el balad.

:( ana ka2eeb

Adam said...

Men just can't stand not knowing something or not found attractive by women (who are mostly total strangers and hence their opinion shouldn't count..but not to the male logic).
They can't bear not climbing every mountain, mapping
everywhere. Labeling everything. Peeing on every tree and then
never calling you back.

Even if women (or wives here) don't balloon up 40 extra kilos, remain hot (not "nice" not "cute" but HOT) allow them a night out with the guys, and eating ice cream straight from the carton as well as walking naked through the apartment, & the occasional allowance of rough wild sex, you know, innocent little freedoms that mean the world to them...even so, there will still be a reason to go find another woman.

& since cheating men are scum, if they decide they are not scum and want something they can call both "7alal" and a "breather" they do like HH.
they can't have a real marriage like their first, or else what difference will they be making?!!

Adam said...

shimaa are you lonely? because lonely people are the bitterest.

rasha said...

To answer Inso,
ghaltet elsett 3ashan habla!
mafeesh 7aga feldonia aw feldeen tegber elsett enaha teda7y!
da mindset 3andena e7na bas!
To be fulfilled - and i won't discuss other aspects of marriage now- is a BASIC Instinct and need that allah granted...aslan e7na etrabena 3ala fekr ghalat about the purpose of marriage bas that's another story.

To reply shaimaa,
I didn't mean it's her mistake khales...i just stated HIS reasons.
and true...they are a tefes gendre.

The thing is...what i saw - A HELL LOT- and what scared me forever made me realize facts kont leghayet wa2t orayeb rafda enny ashofha aw asada2ha...bas maza taf3al law kont makani :D

Shaimaa...ana zayek avocato adeem fa fahmaki 3ala elasbab elshar3eya...bas men demnaha sex tab3an...or to be more precise...fulfilled men kol elnawa7y.

saba7 elful :)

rasha said...

Adam and all...mafeesh wa7da feldonia 7aterda befekret enaha mesh enough lgozha 7ata law kanet ablakasha in bed oo 3arfa dah 3an nafsaha...human pride if i may call it...zay bezabt mafeesh ragel yerda fekret enno yekoon a complete ****less jerk in his wife's eyes 7ata law kan 3ando shahada men konsolto bedah!

the idea itself will never be ok...
and it doesn't develope bitterness...it develops 2araf!

ela eza e7na wel mogtama3 rabena fata7ha 3aleena oo ba2eena nas 3andaha dam oo demagh kwayesa and started weighing things in a more realistic but considering EQUAL BALANCED way.

ya nhar abiad - aw eswed- law wa7da 2alet le7ad ana mesh mabsoota ma3a goozy fa 3ayza aseebo oo atgawez!!!!

ma3a en da 7asal fel sonnna and was appreciated a RIGHT!

shaimaa... LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL 3ala eltemsal oo eltaf 3aleeh :D

Adam said...

thats not pride!

thats effin denial.

Shimaa Gamal said...

Hey Adam
This is the not lonely Shimaa, so you think that a woman refusing to share her husband with a stranger is in denial? I wonder if you would share your wife.
The fact that there is a clause in Islamic Sharia giving the man the right to polygamy doesn’t mean that it is depriving the wife from the right to choose. Because I don’t think God who created us EQUAL (males and females are equal but different) will give anyone the right to disgrace the other. It is against common sense, and it is against all types of religions.
Unfortunately, things like religion and law are set to rectify the physiological deficiencies of some people. Those who think that testosterone makes them men! And those who believes that being on top makes them superior!
Just to make things clear, if polygamy is the rule it wasn’t going to be stated in a conditional clause. A condition that GOD denied it could be ever fulfilled. The verse is conditional, and the condition isn’t only the fairness. The verse started with a condition too, the case where a man might need to have a second wife. And the shocking news is, it is not related to how good or bad his wife is in bed. I just hate how such discussions turn Islam to be a religion to legitimize sex.
Islam values marriage, it is called “el methaq el 3’aleez” so, how can something that big be downgraded to just sex? Does “el methaq al 3’aleez” sound like something shallow, or something to be taken lightly??

Shimaa Gamal said...

Correction, it is psychological not physiological

Cheers

insomniac said...

before i start commenting, heya leeh el nas betet7eme2 kol ma mawdoo3 el second marriage da yetfete7!!!!


ladies...

Shimaa,

te7eby ne3mel fund le mawdoo3 el tamaseel?

i agree that people drag the word religion to end any argument! it's a shame!!


Rasha,

it's true that e7na etrabeena ghalat, kollena, regala we settat, we be mafaheem ghalat 3an el deen aghlabha 7agat men ayam el fara3na wel gaheleya kaman!!

wel moshkela en el mafaheem el ghalat de serves men more because after all, this IS a masculin society!!

as for pride, i agree... and you know what, i think men use the sex excuse because they know it's a taboo and because they are sure their wives will be too shy to argue because of the who taqaleed we tarbeya kinda thing... and i think that if every wife shared her reply to what her husband accused her of, hayetfed7o!!!


adam,

awalan, no need to get all personal on any other fellow commenter, i thought u didn't bother reading what others write :)

as for your opinion, i personally think it's painfully condescending to all women (as much as men to an extent!!)... people's needs change, i can understand that, but not everything in life should be attributed to and justified by sex...

i know i sound naive, but i would likek to think that people are actually better than that!!! if i don't i will get extremely depressed thinking that my sons will gow up to have such limited thinking!! as a matter of fact, the one reason i have not yet lost hope in men, is because i would like to believe my kids will grow up to be good guys!!

insomniac said...

eh da i was writting the comment i didn't notice that shimaa replied!!

i couldn't have said it better ya shimaa!

actually i don't think i have since i was trying to put my thoughts together and failed to come up with a reply!!

adam,

i forgot to get on the denial part!! we all practice denial in our own ways on different levels and it's ok...

but i think this one has to do with pride as well, no one would like to think they r not good enough even when they know it, it's like a slap to the face when it's expressed by a souse wanting out for another!!! despite the reasons....

i mean think about your insecurities and try to picture if someone used them to make you feel dispensable and useless and tell me how you'd take it...

how old r u sa7ee7... ya3ne if u feel free sharing :))

rasha said...

Shaimaa...agreeee gedan bas fee no2ta.
mentioning sex as a cause for divorce is never degrading to the holiness of marriag.
it is one aspect of too much aspects and if anything that makes marriage methaq ghaleez it would be that " afdat elaih wa afda elayha" if it's somehow wrong please excuse me.
the closest relatonship EVER is between man and woman because they combine their souls and bodies to create another human...allah made that happen by creating the desire with the sexual organs so we would want it!
now...sex is never to be taken lightly...
BASIC HUMAN NEEDS ya fandem.

And that's a fact that varies from one person to another but looking at human kind and life...it is something Huge that moves people.

Mazagg Jazz said...

Yanhar 3arka.... But I'm glad these views are being expressed.

Too much to reply to here, but since this is still a small fire, khaliha tewla3...begad

- I think marriage is a concept that does not fit this day and age.

- Let's keep religion out of it completely, kol wa7ed hay2olak 7alal wi 7aram wi mesh hanekhlas. Religion after all is defined by how a society practices it, not how it was originally revealed (this point deserves an entire blog lwa7daha)

- A few ppl made this point (mesh faker meen), but yes, we were all raised wrong, men and women, and society's expectations of both sexes is completely unrealistic

- Believe it or not, a huge reason men take "so long to decide on divorce" isn't because they want to "lose what they have", but it IS the consequences of their wife and kids. And that's a direct relation of how backwards society and laws are in Egypt (or any Muslim/Arab society). Ya3ni elsett btetbahdel begad, welbahdala relative I know depending on the person's background, socio-economic status, etc. Bas bardo bahdala. Kefaya elnazra eli elmogtama3 beyenzorha lel "motalaqa"

W kefaya keda 3ashan bsara7a ama elcomments betawel betbayakh.

salamo 3aleiko

Shimaa Gamal said...

Hello Rasha

ana ha2olek "afda ba3dkom illa ba3d" mesh bas ma3naha el sex.
Women don't take sex lightly :) Men Do.
ana ha2olek mafhomy 3an afda ba3dkom illa ba3d wel methaq el 3'aleez.
In marraige, both men and women give in to form a bond. A bond that makes a new entity out of them. This could be sympolized by how the two bodies get attached back during making love.

So, sex isn't the base for marriage and it is not el Methaq el 3'aleez. it is one of the forms where the entity proves enaha mawgooda.

I just hate how people may make marriage look as a way to have safe and cheap sex. Or how sex is sometimes overrated as a desire.

I agree sex isn't something light, but this doesn't mean it should be the factor.

Btw, I agree sex could be a reason for divorce, but it could never be a reason for marriage or polygamy.

Anyway, I am a believer that we control our desires mesh el 3aks. ya3ny mesh 3ashan ba7eb el akl hafdal akol le7ad lama amoot, we lw tekheena ba3raf a3mel diet wakhes, the same goes for sex.

Desires could never be the core of life.

3ala fekra I guess we are talking about the same thing bas kol wa7ed bases lel kobya mn zawya mokhtalefa :)

Adam said...

Did I step on any toes?

:|

Insomniac:
I don't see how my age is relevant here, since we're not getting personal and the rest of it, but its not like its a secret either.
I'm 25.

No one deserves to feel useless or dispensable & if that happens then its their fault for not having chosen a good person to marry.

I agree that denial saves us a great deal of hurt, but it doesn't solve anything either.
Let me put it this way: when women get married its like they're choosing a certain ice cream flavor for the next 25 years. But for men, all flavors are available provided that certain conditions are fulfilled. (which are difficult, and not to be toyed with)


shimaa:
I beg to differ. Not just testosterone, to be a man you actually need a penis. Jeez! I thought everyone knows that by now.

you know what the shocking news is? The first reason why a man needs to re-marry is when he feels that his wife is not enough. (yoreed y3ef nafso.)

You actually think that when a man gets a second wife he's disgracing the first? Are you aware of what that means??
& you're saying people shouldn't get married for sex but could get divorced because of reasons related to it?

I'd not even comment on the "sharing my wife" part because it is just ridiculous.

Adam said...

I tried real hard to deliver what I wanted to say in a decent way.

However, if thats still condescending or unappreciated (if you want this a female-restricted area), I can take a hint and just stop commenting here.

insomniac said...

adam,

u did not step on my toes at least! and i asked about your age basically out of curiosity, not to get personal...

so here is the thing i kinda find contradicting... u say (or imply) that when one feels useless and/or dispensable it's their fault for making a wrong choice... i sort of agree... HOWEVER, you said earlier in one of your comments that alll men are the same! in fact, your next lines said that for women it's different since they can try all flavors any time they want... tab maho keda no matter what the woman's choice is, it will be the wrong one in that sense, no??? please clarify if i had misunderstood!

denial is like a pain killer; it makes the pain go away temporarily but it never treats the symptoms and the pain keeps coming back... so yes, it does not solve much on the long term... when i was in that place, i couldn't do denial!

out of my own personal experience, i felt useless and dispensable and it was extremely painful because the one who caused me to feel that way was someone i was deeply in love with... i believed him when he said it was me who caused him to drift, i honestly did and i only blamed him for never talking to me or leaving me.... i did not do denial, and i constantly blamed myself for every single little thing; i blamed myself for things i have not done that he claimed i have, i blamed myself for things i have done that he had taken for granted, i questioned myself and judged myself, and i have already proven in other posts how harsh i can be!! we fel akher ba3d kol da, i know it was him! ALL HIM!! and still it hurts because i made a wrong decision and it ruined my life in a sense!! this is where my talk comes from, a painful experience that might have left me a bit biased, but i am ok with it really because as i mentioned before, i would like to think that there are better people out there who would choose being honest rather than doing what he had done...

actually when i asked about your age it's because i believe that our own experiences shape us... which made me wonder about ur set of experiences, and although i hate admitting it, age is somehow relative!! not judging at all, i promise :))

all of the people who drop by and leave long comments expressing their opinions usually have some sort of an experience of which they were reminded... i speak for myself when i say that i have too much passion when i discuss certain things... and i think it applies to all, so it's normal that some may disagree in a less friendly way; because we all have our scars really!!

which brings me to your last remark... this is not a female restricted area, and it never will be... if anything, getting the male perspective on this particular kind of thing is important...

when i said i found ur comment condescending, it was because you stated all men were in a constant chase of what they can possibly get their hands on and that it was ok, but when you talked about women you mentioned weight gain as well as looks in a general way and made it sound like it was their only quality in a marriage, and that any unfavorable changes was NOT ok by any means... news flash, men, they gain weight, they lose hair and they grow hair in their noses!!! men grow ugly bellies and have the worst set of habits hygiene wise, and their wives endure them!! WHY?? because there is more to marriage than looking HOT!! and a woman would like a hot husband ya3ne, eshme3na heya... at least men do not undergo pregnancy and hormonal madness...

i think that was shimaa meant when she asked if you (or any man for that matter) would be willing to share a wife... it's not that it's ok... to me it's like using drugs; it is not OK in any case, the user be it a man or a woman is wrong... with second marriages i know it's different because of religion, but we have established that people abuse the word and the concept; hence, do not fulfill any conditions; hence, it's done for the wrong reasons and in the wrong ways!

finally, you're most welcomed to comment here; as i said, a male perspective is welcomed on such topics!!


sorry ya mazagg jazz that i made one long bayekh comment, but words wouldn't stop coming out!!

Shimaa Gamal said...

Hey Adam

A penis doesn't make you a man. The zoo if full of better and bigger things and guess what that doesn't make them men!

And hey, a marraige that's based on sex is a long term prostitution contract. Though you can still end a marriage because of sex.
WHY? 3ashan mesh hat3raf tegarab ur partner sexually abl el gawaz. fa maybe things will suck and you won't be pleased by what you get fa you may choose to end it.

ama 3an mawdoo3 ye3ef nafsoh, fa ye3ef nafsoh with a wife mashy, laken ye3ef nafsoh with a second wife, excuse me yeb2a ye2dar 3ala wa7da el awal.

Or, lw meratoh shayfa enaha me2asara we 3ayza te3eesh ma3ah while he is bey3ef nafsoh with someone else yetekel 3ala allah.

Are you married??

Adam said...

*tab maho keda no matter what the woman's choice is, it will be the wrong one in that sense, no???

Let's say I picked strawberry. I'm having it everyday and I'm happy with it. I know that chocolate and mango exist, but they never quite got me as interested as strawberry.
then one day I get a wet dream about vanilla and I realize how tedious my strawberry is getting, how its more like a chore than an experience.
since not all men are the same (& I certainly don't speak for them all)
their reactions differ.
1- Go crazy with the idea of actually getting some vanilla instead of just dreaming about it.
2- Have that like just a happy thought at the back of his head (because of lack of time/money/...)
3- Try to turn his strawberry to vanilla and blame it when it doesn't work out. (& it will)

so #2 & #3 do nothing about it, yet one remains to be the good guy.

I think the despicable prick is #3 not #1 because he not only tells strawberry that its no longer his favorite but ruin its self esteem as well.

& about how appearances change:
Marriage boils down to becoming comfortable about your relationship and knowing there is someone who loves you no matter what.
Now pushing that to the limit is very hard (for either the man or the woman.)
Knowing what I know, if I were a woman I'd rather my husband finds me hot than love me. Good sex can keep the marriage intact, love on its own is questionable.
Child birth multiplies fat cells for women, it's biological.
But its very possible to regain fitness & its all what the woman believes she deserves.

Men kind of take it for granted that they'll remain acceptable no matter what they turn into. Maybe because if they are emotionally satisfying their wives thats all what matters but its not the same way round I'm afraid.

Adam said...

shimaa

C-H-I-L-L

The zoo 2eh bas?! :D
wb3deen do you really wanna discuss the "size" issue?

Men's sexual drive is more intense, more persistent than women's.


after getting married many things can suck, like getting used to each other's annoying little habits. (sex included as you say)
But you don't just run away because things suck. No you work on them. what about el methaq al ghaleez, ha?

to answer your Q.
No I'm not married. Never been.

insomniac said...

Ok, I have counter arguments on so many points!!!

Awalan, ice cream analogies don’t fit anymore because nothing is as easy as having a change of taste or preference!! There are no ties, and consequences barely exist unless you have a severe allergic reaction to your new taste… so let’s just call things with their names!

Before I explore your 3 scenarios, I would like to state clearly that any sexual relationship outside the contest of a legal marriage is simply wrong, not just for religious reasons, but for social reasons as well, I am very black/white on this one and I just can’t help it!

So,

1- he remarries; fine, good for him… BUT his first wife does have the right to walk out without being denied any of her rights, NONE, she gets to be remain financially supported by him for the legally suggested period of time (unless she remarries before it ends), she gets a place to stay in with her kids –if there was any- (also unless she remarries), she does not get disgraced; he remarried because he wanted a different kind of women, yeb2a balash nestahbel! And she does keep the kids because a mother is definitely more attached to her kids, especially when compared to the guy who compromised the marriage… this is the least fair a man can be, if he can't, yeb2a bel balady keda, kol barghoot 3ala add dammo!!

2- he decides to not act on it, be it to keep the marriage intact or because he can’t afford it or because he thinks it’s inappropriate… kattar kheero, 3amal elly 3aleeeh… may3esh door shaheed we ye2ool ana da7eet, I hate that word and I hate people who use it all the time… he did what he could do for the time being, he should behave like a man and suck it up!

3- This is just wrong; awakening non existing insecurities is abuse!! And it won’t work anyway, so he might as well go for option no. 1 and save everyone the trouble!! Some wise man once said you do not blame a pig for not being a giraffe… and you do not blame someone for not being what you want!!

I would agree with you that the despicable prick is definitetly no. 3, but no. 1 has to preserve everyone’s rights, and I would respect him if he does things the rhight way… but you can’t just play the men-want-hot-sexy-women card and make it a good reason for them not doing it the legitimate way or behind their wives’ backs… de esmaha ser2a!!

Now you’re saying marriage boils down to being comfy in the relationship; true, BUT what happened to the nagging obsession over another woman now!!! If a man is comfy in his relationship with his wife from most aspects, even including the physical one, and all of a sudden he can’t help fantasizing over another woman, whatever happened to being comfy??!! He has to decide from the very beginning what he wants out of the whole marriage, mesh yeghayar 7ayato we 7ayatha over a change of preference that could be temporary due to a mid-life crisis or whatever other reason!!! 7ayat el nas we masa2erhom mesh le3ba, it should not be taken lightly!!

Marriage takes a lot to work, and tossing it away over a fantasy is not acceptable; yet there seems to be more tolerance when the man does it!!

From a personal experience, I was willing to endure anything at some point; but when I knew it was all thrown to the wind and unappreciated, I was no longer willing to even try!! Even if he regrets it and tries to make it work, I am no longer interested, and guess what? I am being harshly judged because of my stance!!! Tab eshme3na!!

As for physical appearances… both genders can get fit when they want to, one way or another… all I am saying was the fact that women are more prone to not being fit because of pregnancy and hormones… but what is the excuse for men!! Why is it ok for men to have kersh and despicable for women to be slightly overweight??? The gender bias is all over the place I know… but a man’s physical appearance is as important as a woman’s ya3ne… fa mayeb2ash wa7ed extremely overweight we ye2olak asl my wife is fat!! I mean really!! Tab diet together, work out together, enzelo emsho wegro together, not only will you get healthy, but you might actually bond and renew the relationship… looking for a skinny woman will not make you more attractive!!!

I totally disagree on the whole sex vs. love, but I am not sure of the facts… I think women’s emotional needs are more important to them than their sexual needs, or at least they don’t get to experience much of the latter because of their spouses’ drives… but it would be totally ignorant of a man to ignore and overlook his wife’s emotional needs, which I think happens quite A LOT!! Men would think they emotionally satisfy, but I think if you make a poll and make sure results are accurate hatla2y most women are not emotionally content with their marriages; yet they are not allowed to even consider having a sexless emotional bond with someone else, it’s not even considered a legitimate reason to end a marriage in our culture…

I find it annoying that men keep stressing on how their sex drive is more intense and overlook all the fact that women are the more hormonal gender that suffers from extreme changes a million times a month!!! I think that card is overused by men!!

Obviously this can drag forever; therefore, all I am asking is that you try seeing things from the other side, a woman’s side!

Shimaa Gamal said...

Hello Again

Adam,
maho dah elly ana ba2oloh, en mesh el 7al enoh yeroo7 yetgawez wa7da tanya.
Anyway, as for the men's drive is more intense I really doubt. Actually there is no scientific proof 3ala el mawdoo3, at least nothing that I know about.
It is a myth, just like the size talk ;)

As for the whole ice-cream thing. I guess Inso made a point and this could keep going forever. bas begad el donia is much deeper than strawberries and vanila. le2n a woman too momken teroo7 teshoof el chocolate elly nefsaha fih. bas mesh bet3mel mesh khof mn gozha, wala el society as it might seem. el set elly mesh betmshy wara her cravings betkoon mashya wara damerha. bas wade7 en el marad elly esmoh el dameer marad 7areemy ba7t :)

P.S.
esma3 kalamy khaleek single :) ma7desh damen el flacvor elly hatkhtaroh hay3gebak wala la2. kaman ma7desh damen lw gebt 4 flavors haykafo wala hat3ooz el khames ;)

Adam said...

Well said Insomniac.
I'm, too, against sex out of wedlock.

I just want to point out one little thing: being comfortable in a relationship (or in anything for that matter) eliminates the surprise factor. Everything is as anticipated, hence comes the boredom.
It is good and crucial to be comfortable, still both the man and the woman need to remember to spice things up every once in a while.
(so that none of them would have to look for a brief adventure elsewhere)

I can see how society gives carte blanche for men; and honestly we can't help enjoying it :)
your boys will grow just fine, they've won the genetic lottery!

shimaa:
I'm afraid you need some basic sexual education because you're really got some major things wrong.
& No I can't stay single for long. I'm not a monk!

The good news is I get your points of view.
its been a good discussion ..
apart from bringing up animals' names & the zoo (what was that about? :D)

& I agree the ice cream thing doesn't quite fit...but at least I've not ruined the real ice cream for you girls, or did I?

Shimaa Gamal said...

Adam,
Continuous learning is the road to success :) I promise you I will keep up my work with the sex education. To make sure I will never get intimidated whenever someone suggests a myth as a fact. Anyway, men and women need different types of sex. It is not that men have higher sex drive, but the fact that men are turned on visually and women are turned on by feelings.
So, I guess you need to do some homework before dumping your current Monk status. Because believe me you could be surprised ;)
Happy you finally got my point of view, and the zoo was related to some size talk :D Seems that everything is about sizes :D

Mazagg Jazz said...

Let's try to be objective about this, I think insomniac at one point said "we are shaped by our experiences", which is absolutely true.

Adam
I think Adam represents the average male perspective, especially the average single male perspective, and I (also a male) agree with many of the things he said, and disagree with some (won't get into it here).

Shimaa
Again, Shimaa represents her gender and the perceptions she has about marriage, relationships and sex.

Wi kazalek. The point is, we have a single male, and a few female perspectives. Where is the married male perspective fel mawdoo3? Divorced or even married women can (and have been) guessing what their husbands are thinking for ages. It's not that simple sada2ooni, and not everything is black/white.

The problem is, while Adam is discussing his perspective as a male, and how he views these issues (i.e. male issues), I think Shimaa is trying to express her views on male issues as well. Wi ma3a e7terami, mayenfa3sh, many of the things you mentioned/assumed are myths and a general feminist view of trying to impose how women think/act, on men's psyche. It doesn't work.

Ya3ni melakher, kol wa7ed is more aware of their gender and their situation.

Sex Drive
Men generally have a stronger sex drive than women, but it depends on their ages. And yes Shimaa is correct that men's sex drive triggered visually while women's is more emotional/psychological, bas bardo men's is stronger, the actual urge is more powerful than women.

Men's sex drive starts in their late teens into their 20s where it peaks and then starts to flatline in the 30s (flatline, not decline), while women don't actually peak until their 30s.

So whether men have a stronger drive or not, depends on what age we're talking about. Assuming we're all 30 or younger here, then Adam is correct, men's drive is a lot stronger.

Shimaa Gamal said...

Hello Mazzag Jazz
I agree our experiences shape our views and that’s why our opinions about the same things tend to vary with time.
Anyway, whatever I said was my opinion based on my experiences. The things I said about men are the things I know about men, through my relationships and basically because I am such a curious creature who keeps asking around. So, I am not just saying the feminist views about how men should think/ act.
Kol wa7ed adra with his gender, hmmm basically true. With regards to the guidelines not the details. But I will use this comment to prove my point. Women have an equal sex drive to what men have (and sometimes higher!). I am not judging the men’s drive I am judging the women’s drive based on my insider knowledge of the gender.
This really could go till forever, and I don’t think it will change anyone’s point of views. The discussion was about the man’s need to have a second wife who was defended by a single man because he believes he wants more sex than women!
I was defending the woman’s right to decide whether or not to carry on with such relation. The discussion wasn’t about the men’s super sex drive and there is not scientific proof about it, each side (even in science) is trying to prove his point. Only those who are enjoying the forbidden fruit know that those who are trying to prove it are wasting time because they are not having enough!

Inso, I guess you are having a record for the number of comments on that post ;)